Opinionista
Ivo Vegter
Green tax: another raid is coming

How can government make more money? Simple. Tax everything that moves. The latest "green tax" proposals are a thin cloak for bleeding the masses dry.

Although a discussion paper on carbon taxes has yet to be released, the government is steaming ahead with plans for another raid on the dwindling coffers of struggling consumers.

Tomorrow we'll get a tax on the sale price of new cars, depending on their carbon dioxide emissions rating. Anything over 120g/km, and you're liable to the tune of R75 a gram.

To put that into perspective, of you buy a little 1.4 litre petrol-driven VW Golf, you'll be done over for R4,125 before you've even got behind the wheel to start emitting plant-food. Want to pretend you're a cabinet minister in a Merc ML300 CDI Sport? That's R9,000 in green tax before you can get the key. A BMW 750i is worth R10,950 in green tax. Your sensible Volvo S60 or V70 will set you back R8,400. A little Ford Fiesta 1.4? Sorry. R2,550 too dirty. Even most 1.2 litre tin cans won't get you in under the limit.

In fact, 88% of all cars sold in the UK exceed the 120g/km emission standard our government is proposing as reasonable. (I couldn't find a local list, but I think one can safely assume "green" cars are no more common here than in Europe.)

And that's not all. Another plan will tax all vehicles, new and old, via the vehicle licence system. This is expected to become law next year, once the formality of a "discussion document" has been completed.

There's so much wrong with these proposals that it's hard to know where to begin.

First, the poorer you are, the harder you'll get hit. If you've saved up to finally buy yourself a second-hand clunker, you'll be hit hard. Worse, your chances to upgrade that clunker to something more fuel-efficient and comfortable have just gone down a notch.

The luxury car brigade and the posers in swanky little fuel-sippers can afford a little extra tax, because they can always fire a marginal employee. But the millions of marginal employees are a different matter. Those who make their living commuting to work, or driving around as tradesmen or salespeople, can't afford this kind of luxury.

Second, your behaviour will not influence the tax you pay. You might only go shopping for bread and milk twice a week, and maybe visit your mother on Sundays. You might cycle to work most days. You might cancel your holiday because you can't afford the fuel. Think you'll be considered "green" by the government? No such luck.

You'll cough up as much as the plumber out on jobs five days a week. You'll spend no less than the taxi driver who puts a million clicks on an engine in three years. You pay the same as the immortal teenager who fits fat tackies and a drainpipe exhaust and does screaming burnouts because he can't pull chicks.

If you work from home, sorry for you. You pay as much as the guy who commutes to Cape Town from his wine farm outside Stellenbosch, or works in Johannesburg but lives in Pretoria. If you are able to take public transport, and you do, you're bang out of luck too. You'll still need your car in the evenings and it will still be taxed, either on the purchase price or when you renew your license every year, or both.

Third, it's not like the price of fuel is negligible. It has risen at a rate of 9% per year over the last eight years, which is well above both our economic growth rate and our inflation rate. Only public sector wages have any chance of keeping up with this kind of increase.

As a major input cost to the economy, the fuel price has a knock-on effect on almost every product and service we buy, so there is every reason for individuals and companies to economise. The monthly fuel price announcement is one of the most closely watched economic indicators. Ordinary South Africans are perfectly well aware of the rising cost of fuel, and most try to limit their expenses as much as possible, especially in tough economic times.

Punishing motorists even further will have little real impact on their consumption of fuel. It might whittle away at the margins, but at what massive cost to the productive economy? Is such inflationary policy really what the government wants?

Fourth, if the intention is to encourage fuel-efficient cars, surely the standard for tax purposes should be around the median for cars on the market today, rather than way at the low end? And surely those who buy cleaner cars than average should receive equivalent subsidies to encourage this behaviour?

That this is not so reveals the real intent. It is not to use tax as a policy tool – inadvisable and market-distorting though that is. The real aim is simply to raise more revenue in ever-more ingenious ways, no matter how badly this hurts the economy.

Fifth, does government really need this tax? It isn't exactly struggling to steal the money of productive members of society.

While GDP growth chugged along at half the rate an emerging market should expect, tax revenue increased at the astonishing rate of 15.2% per year between 2002/3 and 2007/8, according to the latest Tax Statistics document from the South African Revenue Service.

Well over half a trillion rand's worth of our money flows to the tax man. That's 29.1% of GDP, which puts us right up there in the top third of all countries, alongside wealthy first-world countries such as the United States, Australia and Switzerland.

One wonders why such an ill-conceived revenue plan with such far-reaching economic effects is even on the table in a developing country like ours.

Finally, and most importantly, what on earth does South Africa need a green tax for?

There's a logical basis for believing that measures such as these, if they really are intended to combat climate change, are perfectly pointless.

I summarised the reasons to reject climate alarmism in a column some months ago, listing ten points that all had to be true to support the notion of regulatory or tax-based intervention by governments. Each seems unlikely enough on its own. Taken together, the likelihood that there is a real crisis, and that we can solve it, becomes vanishingly small.

Of course, such arguments are like Benzedrine to ecobunnies. Let's try to avoid the madness.

Let us accept, for the sake of argument, all the climate change propaganda. Then, to make the required emissions cuts, we'd have to cut not just fat, but flesh and bone from the global economy. No matter how heavy a burden it is to consumers, the impact of this kind of "green tax" our climate will be, to within a rounding error, zero.

All it will achieve is to suck more money out of the productive economy. It will punish especially those who use transport and energy in order to generate new wealth through hard work. If poverty alleviation is what we want to encourage, then it would be smart if the tax man did not treat the means of production like cigarettes.

And if prosperity growth seems like a crass ambition to you who have everything you need, then consider this: if the climate really does turn out to pose problems at some time in the future, it would be nice if we were in the financial and technical position to do something about it.

Poor countries demonstrate time and again that they are least able to protect life, limb and property against nature's caprices. Permitting the state to impoverish our economy through unnecessary and rapacious taxes is the worst way to prepare for the uncertainty of a changing future.

Green tax is what the masses should be angry about. It isn't the first time, and it won't be the last, that people have blithely granted the state the power to exploit them, and have paid for it in blood, sweat and tears.

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Some additional numbers ex Mike Schussler - around 1 million registered taxpayers pay 75% of the tax taken from the 5.7Million registered taxpayers.

In short, of the 50 Million or so in SA, every registered taxpayer is doing the work of 4 or 5. (50 Million, - assume 50% are too young, too old, in hospital or prison, leaves 25 Million potential wekkas to pay tax).

Deliottes, I think it was, calculated that to see how much of your hard-earned ends up back with the various tiers of government, just double your marginal tax rate.

This is not a sustainable economy.

Then, for Safety and Security, Health, Education, transport, we pay again, and again, and again..........................

And we are now supposed to save ?
I wish you wouldn't use the word "wekkas" when commenting on my columns. It is offensive to workers, and to those who speak English with the accent of another South African language.
Sory Ivo, I will remove my tongue from my cheek and give the workers the respect that they are due.
Thanks Ivo! As I read along I was thinking "and then also consider.." just to see it in the next paragraph. It is an atrocity that South Africans must be taxed the way they are. Iain makes relevant points too. If the green tax is used to plant new trees, to put green zones into cities - yes, but we have more dire issues to address, like clean water. But, we are all brain washed into believing we are the reason for climate change (and as the tax base - again thanks to Ian for pointing it out - consists mostly of Protestants, we'll have to get therapy too), with the sum effect that we just pay and get on with life. Poorer yes, less able to help elderly parents on shrinking budgets, less able to buy proper health care, less able to get education for our kids, less able to compete in the world (because we cannot afford the infrastructure to do it). The slippery slope has turned into a gaping hole.
And we are supposed to save? I think not.
BTW, I am a scientist, and an ecobunny! And even I cannot find it in my heart to support this green tax in RSA!
Good article,

There was a debate on this issue a while back in the Business Day, see:

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=116212

It let to numerous letters and a couple of editorial page responses - mostly from green energy companies/groups.

Two points that I found interesting:

(1) The bad quality of diesel we have in SA and that we can adopt cleaner EU standards.
(2) Instead of taxes, subsidise the buying of new cars when you trade in your old car.

Of course both these suggestions implied regulation and state intervention (as opposed to leaving it as voluntary choice), but if you have to choose between tax and these options (or both) it makes for an interesting argument.

Money will still have to be found somewhere (from someone) for any subsidy, regulation will still create an uneven playing field (benefits to partners of subsidy scheme etc.) and consumer choice could potentially be limited in terms of products/services/higher prices.
I don't support any government intervention on the basis of climate change (unlike pollution, which is a different matter since it demonstrably infringes on the lives, health and property rights of others). You're right, however, that if they are going to intervene, there are many lesser evils than the ones being proposed. But there are also far better causes on which to spend scarce time, effort and resources.
The fundamental problem is that without growth in the economy, there is no prospect of growth in tax revenues without the imposition of new taxes and the ratcheting up of existing ones. Indeed as we have seen, tax revenue is decreasing as jobs are shed, and the Government needs to become increasingly inventive to maintain it's current level of revenue.

There are very few alternatives. The critical necessity is to increase the tax base. The obvious way is to stimulate the economy by creating an environment where jobs will be created. Not much evidence of that right now.

Another, much less likely way is to remove the current VAT exemption for basic items and raise the VAT rate to say 25%. That will not happen because the ANC will be shooting itself in it's voting fodder. It is also highly regressive since it means that the lowly paid will pay a much higher percentage of their income in VAT.

We need a new and lateral view of funding Government. One that does not allow the Minister of Luxury to stay at the taxpayers expense in a suite at Nellies for nine months because he doesn't like the colour of the curtains in his official residence.
Iain,

Two good articles in the Business Day today about the realities we need to face if we want to create jobs and sufficient economic growth:

Ann Bernstein (CDE):
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=119609

Hilary Joffe:
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=119611
Thanks, very interesting.
I fully agree with the principle, but lets face it most politicians cannot resist legislating over such a politically attractive issue - especially the nanny state bunch we have in government.

I am not entirely sure those other suggestions are lesser evils? (I just mentioned them as alternative proposals)

Subsidies will distort market mechanisms and lead to all sort of unintended incentives, whilst regulation are bound to lead to regulatory capture and stifle competition. Consumers and tax payers end up paying some sort of price for government intervention either way...

It would, however, be interesting to see more analysis of the economic cost of each of the options.
@Helgard, a senior bod from PetroSA or Sasol was on the radio the other night. We need to upgrade our refineries to be able to produce the higher standard petrol and diesel before we can take advantage of the latest low emission engines from Europe and the US. This will cost several Billion rand, he said.

Since PetroSA/Sasol claim to be poorer than Church mice, the costs will need to be recovered from a "special levy" on the fuel price.

There we go again, another example of the thinking that business investment is funded directly out of the customer's wallet rather than by prudent financial planning and management.
I am not surprised that they are hinting at a government enforced fuel levy - talk about regulatory capture and corporatism.

The bigger argument would be if such a levy is justifiable and if it would make any significant difference in global CO2 levels?

(But that leads us back to the debate about the economic costs of climate change and if it makes sense if the science isn't even clear, and even if it is clear - if it is worth it economically speaking. Then we haven't even discussed if any government imposed levy is justifiable. But I suspect, as a new subscriber, that all these issues have been touched on before by Ivo)

I guess you could conclude that at the moment there is not a strong enough demand for cleaner fuel in SA to make it economically viable to companies. But then again, in all likelihood regulation in the EU/US force companies to comply (not driven by consumer choice) and you could also probably make a case that existing regulation make it difficult for "cleaner" competitors to step into the market and offer a product to "green conscious" consumers.
I am not surprised that they are hinting at a government enforced fuel levy - talk about regulatory capture and corporatism.

The bigger argument would be if such a levy is justifiable and if it would make any significant difference in global CO2 levels?

(But that leads us back to the debate about the economic costs of climate change and if it makes sense if the science isn't even clear, and even if it is clear - if it is worth it economically speaking. Then we haven't even discussed if any government imposed levy is justifiable. But I suspect, as a new subscriber, that all these issues have been touched on before by Ivo)

I guess you could conclude that at the moment there is not a strong enough demand for cleaner fuel in SA to make it economically viable to companies. But then again, in all likelihood regulation in the EU/US force companies to comply (not driven by consumer choice) and you could also probably make a case that existing regulation make it difficult for "cleaner" competitors to step into the market and offer a product to "green conscious" consumers.
@Ivo
Good article.

If the government's stated intentions in introducing the Co tax on vehicles were true, honourable as as spun, then they would ring-fence the revenue that will accrue and plough it back into funding expenditure on environmentally positive projects.

Like the much maligned and eventually droppped special tax on retirement funds (now THERE is an incentive to save - tax the savers even more!)this is no more than an opportunistic money-grab.

The local Oil majors / petrol lobby have been successful in assuring that our fuel is of a standard way behind that of the developed world - in SA we currently have Euro 2 compliant petrol and Diesel, whereas the standard in developed countries is Euro 4 for petrol and Euro 5 for Diesel.
Sure, refinery upgrades would be neccessary in order to comply with Euro 4 and 5, and the customer would eventually bear the cost.

Here is a newsflash for anyone in government that struggled with Ecos 101:
The customer ALWAYS eventually bears the cost!
Ever wondered why you cannot buy a Diesel engined Toyota passenger car in SA? Toyota (TMC) Japan will not ALLOW Toyota SA to sell vehicles using their latest diesel technology due to the poor quality of our diesel fuel (the accountants that do the forecast and accruals for warranty claims have no doubt crunched some numbers!).

If the government were serious about environmental issues, they would stop coal and anthracite being burned in the urban areas, would tackle methane emmissions from cows (seriously!) and would tackle the pollution of our rivers due to human waste and industrial effluent.

One last factual snippet (Evo - perhaps you could forward this to Mr Vavi for comment?)in its latest RT57 tender for vehicles, our ANC government awarded the biggest slice of business to a Chinese manaufacturer with no local manufacturing base.

Whatever happened to not "exporting jobs to the Chinese"?.

Mr Vavi, how does your affiliate NUMSA feel about this government tender?

Oh sorry, I forgot - where was JZ again this last week?
I neglected to add a paragraph about the government's hypocrisy in building coal-fired power plants while taxing citizens on "green" grounds. (Don't get me wrong: I don't oppose coal power.)

I'd argue with the protectionism implicit in your comment about contracts with Chinese car manufacturers, but again, the government is hypocritical in subsidising our own manufacturing industry but then using its buying power elsewhere. If our own industry can't compete even with subsidies, that's a pretty harsh verdict on the government's own industrial policy. I'd say buy the Chinese cars, if they offer the best cost/benefit, but then ditch the Motor Industry Development Plan and let our manufacturers compete on their own merits, or sink and redeploy capital and labour to where it can be used more efficiently.

There's an entire other column in the hypocrisy of government policy, though.
Another area of interest is that of the migration to digital TV. We were well in the way to conforming to the treaties we signed in conjunction with the SADC in the mid 2000s to migrate from analogue to digital signals using the European standard.

Manufacturers had researched the requirements of set top boxes and begun to prepare to manufacture them in line with the November 2010 deadline in the treaty. Sentec have installed over 50% of the equipment to broadcast on the European standard. Mauritius have completed their migration.

However, a bunch arrive from Brazil, invite the Minister for Luxury and his DG to a "fact finding Visit" to Brazil, and the whole issue is up in the air again with the distinct possiblilty that we will switch to an incompatible Japanese standard. We now have no hope of making deadlines.

If the technology changes, then all the investment by the public and private sectors is wasted. Further, instead of a world-wide market for our stuff, we would be limited to Brazil and Japan.

Rumours of power stations for SA and VIP trips to the 2014 World Cup start to trickle out. Hypocrisy abounds again.

I go by the old adage - follow the money.
TV is a little beside the point, but for the sake of accuracy, I understand the Brazil/Japan lobby is about ISDB-T as an alternative standard to DVB-H for mobile TV, broadcast to handheld devices. It will not affect digital terrestrial television, which broadcasts from towers to set-top boxes. Brazil and Japan are finding their cost-base too high and are hoping to get others to adopt its choice, instead of the European DVB standard, so they can take advantage of economy of scale. That said, ISDB-T is capable of delivering digital terrestrial television, as is DVB-T, the terrestrial version of DVB-H (handheld). The smart choice, you're right, would be not to bow to Brazilian bribery and just get on with implementing DVB. To bring the conversation back on track, our government does appear to be easily bought by self-serving lobbies on regulatory policy matters, to the detriment of the domestic economy.
Ivo, it is unfortunate, but the first impression I had, as did many of my colleagues when the whole gemors around the potential dropping of the Euro standard for the Brazilian/Japanese standard hit the media, is that someone is setting themselves up to make money.

The first thought that sprung to my mind was that of graft and corruption rather than it might be a reasoned consideration of new technical alternatives. That is the real tragedy, and an utter condemnation of the money-grubbing bling-blinded coterie running our country.

Our politicians seem to be stumbling around the world like a bunch of raddled old whores willing to trade anything for money.
@Ivo, for a much better exposition and comments that I could possibly manage:

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36416&A=AFN&S=Broadcasting&O=E&E=itweb@ealabhan.co.za
Igor, house owners dont generally pay tax they merely advance funds to the fisc and wait for their house prices to rise. This is from my personal experience as a professional valuer living in Cape Town. It led me to write the Meakin law of Public Finance: If land, capital, employment and trade are all taxed then their prices rise. If only land is taxed, the single land tax, then all these prices will fall.
I am not the only one to observe this. In His July FT column “Why we must halt the land cycle” [http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f06df9e-8ac1-11df-8e17-00144feab49a.html], Martin Wolf agonises over the fact that in twenty six years the land on which his London house sits has increased in value “without any effort of his” by a real ten times. He concludes that this unearned, so subsidised, source of profit is the prime cause of “the immense financial and economic crisis into which the world has fallen.”

Wolf uses quotes from Fred Harrison’s book “The Inquest” [Discovered Authors 2010, London] for his case, describing it as a “superb new jeremiad.” Harrison will be in Cape Town on the 15th and 16th of September making a film titled South Africa's Free-land, Tax Haven.

Further details at www.sacprif.org.

Peter Meakin 021 6834346

Customs and Excise charges such as the carbon tax are separate
@Peter Meakin

You have lost me, there, Peter.

What has the payment of tax - including property tax - got to do with asset appreciation (which itself is subject to a separate tax called capital gains tax).?

You mention Martin Wolf's London property asset price apppreciation that might realise a nominal (ie not adjusted for inflation) profit if liquidated being symptomatic of the "immense financial and economic crisis into which the world has fallen".

How do you square this against the DEFLATION ie asset prices in Japan of especially commercial property, which triggered the collapse of the Japanese stockmarket (now 23 years later the Nikkei is still not even hafway back towards the 40,000 high)and collapse in the confidence in the Japanese banking system?

No offence , but what level of training in the field of Economics do professional valuers undergo - first year undergrad? Second? Third? Post grad?

Dear Peter Jansen
In reply to your questions I guess the Meakin law of Public Finance did not sink in. Please try again: If land, capital, employment and trade are all taxed then their prices rise. If only land is taxed, the single land tax, then all these prices will fall.
Perhaps too it is better not be an economist to see that this law accurately distinguishes between land, [a natural asset, an original gift, the source of all wealth], and a man made asset like a pump. Man made assets depreciate and cost more when the profit from a pump, whether in operation revenue or a sale is taxed. You also cannot tax the entire profit of a pump because owners will dismantle it and sell it abroad.
Land does not normally depreciate. The rent of land on the other hand can be one hundred percent taxed without any reduction in supply. When this single tax gradually replaces all other taxes [or when land is leased] the entry cost of land is reduced from some 240 months to one month recurring rent. This means that anyone can afford a hectare or two. Land profits are also unearned. Apart from being Consitutionally compliant iro equality, freedom, and dignity is that not what is needed here to resolve the land question.
As for Japan their deflation occurred in 1989 precisely at the point when the land price bubble burst. Banks still have not written off some of those debts.
I said I was a professional valuer and it is a sorry thing that economists do not distinguish between natural and manmade wealth like land and its building. When one values a developed property one capitalises the land rent in perpetuity and the building rent for its expected life-probably no more than twenty five years. That is exactly the algebra which economists should be using.
Peter Meakin
@ Peter Meakin
I have looked at your Website and links and what you are basically advocating is radical tax reform - or no so radical if you go back in history and look at feudal and middle ages England, plus the ways of the Romans.

These views would have found at least some favour with the PAC and prior to that, the Khmer Rouge.

I would be interested to see a practical implementation plan quoting numbers, revenue required, how to deal with tribal and pastoral land etc.

I'm not sure that we are all ready to become farmers!

At least the penny has dropped regarding what on earth your post has got to do with Ivo's blog!

Personally, I regard your proposals (that are not totally new, by the way) as interesting and thought-provoking.

Less charitable souls might view them as the work of the lunatic fringe (ah but a prophet is never acnowledged in his own lifetime!)
Peter Jansen,

I am tempted to think that your muted praise is damning! I reply in short:

These “views” as you call them are constitutionally compliant according to our advocates. If so they will be lawful as they were at the time of Leviticus. We have objected to the Income Tax Laws in Parliament and are in negotiation with the Treasury as the Portfolio Committee Minutes on the website. We are gearing up to take the matter to court bit need an angel or two. The Single Land Tax is a mainstream “classical” economic principle from the pens of Adam Smith, Henry George Karl Marx, The Physiocrats and Nobel Laureates. The website records the land tax petition sent to Gorbachev by the latter.

The “gradual” replacement of all income taxes by a land tax would take ten some years though the period is SARS to decide on. It will replace all Income taxes and VAT in accordance with the land, mineral, and spectrum etc values attached to each site. Like the Property Rates Act works now. Tribal and pastoral land has some value.

I don’t know why you think we are all to become farmers. The serious question is what the hell do people do when unemployed. There are two options other than begging borrowing or stealing. These are to start a business or get support from the State. Rejecting the latter a small holding of 2ha [which is all a family can work with simple tools and using animal traction] is a factory capable of producing all the food, fibre and shelter needed for a dignified life. This is still visible today in places like the Basque country in France: the village system there is called Les Bastides and is five hundred years old and still partly functional. Our ebook has a picture of a wine farm which will be worth a minimum of R1.5M on completion. buItis almost entirely hand-made using only the materials which are grown or collected from the land such as straw, bricks and timber. There are examples of these in the W Cape. The man-hours needed to complete this project have been estimated at five years by a professional QS. Not a difficult dream to fulfil.

The human being is also a magnificent machine:
"If we convert the energy gained from harvested plants into kilowatt hours and compare it with the energy expended for that harvest, the result is startling: for fifty harvested energy units the American farmer invests 250 fuel energy units, the Chinese farmer only a single unit of human energy.
"This means simply that the primitive countryman of the east works at an efficiency rate of 5000 per cent and the USA farmer equipped with the most advanced technical aids, at an efficiency rate of only 20 per cent" Felix Paturi NATURE, MOTHER OF INVENTION Themes and Hudson, 1976

For those unused or unwilling to stick a straw between their teeth and labour in the fields, the formal economy will blossom under a free-land tax haven as the attached graphs show. [If they don’t show in this reply then send me your email address to mea44kin@iafrica.com]. It has been calculated by Prof Nicholas Tideman that GDP will rise to 10%pa when “dead-weight” income taxes are removed. See Prof Foldvary’s land tax primer on our web for this.

I am a lunatic but income taxes are certifiable? The land pricing system which it prompts/subsidises is the root cause of all of these these periodic booms and slumps.

Regards

Peter Meakin.

Some very compelling statements by all of you, however lets look at the new coal power station options that have been given the go ahead, SOUTH AFRICA will have a third new coal-fired power station after 2025.

On Tuesday, Eskom CEO Brian Dames confirmed that the two power stations currently under construction – Kusile in Mpumalanga and Medupi in Limpopo – would not be the last coal-fired power plants built in South Africa.

He said although the new Integrated Resource Plan (IRP2010) had not made provision for a third coal-fired plant, it did not necessarily deal with additional capacity after 2025.

Although Eskom was striving to become greener and less dependent on power generation from coal, coal still had a major role in South Africa's future energy mix.

The waste of money that has already come out of the tax payers pocket to do feasibility studies - ie Nuclear vs Solar Power - and then to take the more risky path - http://www.activist.co.za/ag3nt/system/campaign_nuke_debate.php,

surely if we wanted to be "green", then we would go solar, not nuclear, or coal etc, Spain / California great examples of how solar can and does offset the power shortages, and since we have to build houses for the masses, why not build energy eficient houses, and equip them with solar panels, results have shown that there will be an excess of electricity that can be put back into the grid, you could add to your household income, ooops no! Imagine, how that would effect the carbon footprint, we have masses of land that gets plenty of sun, solar farms anybody, no need to tax the already taxed to death public, and the masses of unemployed, semi employed, and generally struggling masses, and as for all the G men and women that drive BMW X5's that are already paid for by your taxes, and now you will be paying their "Green Tax" with your taxes should such new "Taxes" be imposed, rather than those taxes going to where they are actually needed, IE. maintaining the already decaying infrastructure, oh don't get me started,