MIDDLE EAST CRISIS OP-ED
Stellenbosch University Senate members call for end to Israel’s ‘brutal and barbaric’ destruction in Gaza
The following statement was submitted for discussion to the Stellenbosch University Senate. We are awaiting a special meeting of the Senate to further debate the matter. The signatories below have signed in their individual capacity as members of the Stellenbosch University Senate.
We note that the University of Cape Town and the University of Western Cape have made official statements calling for a ceasefire and immediate aid to Gaza.
We, a collection of individual members of the Stellenbosch University Senate, note with deep concern the ongoing massacre and continued mass displacement of the population of Gaza by the Israeli military since 7 October.
We are appalled by the mass killing of innocent civilians and are dismayed that the Israeli military has targeted non-combatants in Gaza — men, women and children — in their retaliation against Hamas.
We note and mourn the deaths of Israeli civilians in the 7 October attacks on Israel by Hamas. However, no crimes inflicted on Israeli civilians nor any military action taken by Israel, whether in self-defence or in pursuit of its military objectives, can ever justify genocidal actions in retaliation.
This level of destruction is brutal and barbaric. The extreme trauma of the surviving population continues to worsen as they bury their dead and fear for their lives. The universities in Gaza have been destroyed, some of which were destroyed after their capture by the Israeli military. They are being used as detention centres or military bases.
Read more in Daily Maverick: Middle East crisis news hub
On 26 January 2024, in recognition of the extreme gravity of the situation in Gaza, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Israel to “take all measures within its power” to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of the Geneva Conventions on the basis that it was plausible that Israel was committing genocide in its attacks on Palestinians in Gaza.
A recent report on the ongoing devastation in Gaza highlights that “Israel has razed 77% of healthcare facilities in Gaza, 68% of telecommunication infrastructure, nearly all municipal and governmental buildings, commercial, industrial and agricultural centres, almost half of all roads, more than 60% of Gaza’s 439,000 homes, 68% of residential buildings — the bombing of the Al-Taj tower in Gaza City on October 25 killed 101 people, including 44 children and 37 women, and injured hundreds — and obliterated refugee camps.
“The attack on the Jabalia refugee camp on October 25 killed at least 126 civilians, including 69 children, and injured 280. Israel has damaged or destroyed Gaza’s universities, all of which are now closed, and 60% of other educational facilities, including 13 libraries. It has also destroyed at least 195 heritage sites, including 208 mosques, churches, and Gaza’s Central Archives that held 150 years of historical records and documents.”
Arguing that Israel is committing genocide has been treated by some university and state authorities as hate speech and/or anti-Semitism. We now know, from a legal perspective, confirmed by the highest court in the world, that there are plausible legal grounds to argue that genocide is, in fact, taking place.
Yet the repression of public criticism of Israel remains profound and widespread by labelling any criticism of Israeli actions as anti-Semitic.
On 25 March, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) demanded an immediate ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinian group Hamas in the Gaza Strip and the release of all hostages.
As members of the Stellenbosch University Senate, we note:
- The mass killings of Palestinian civilians, teachers, educators, professors, healthcare workers, students, learners and patients;
- The absolute devastation of the education system, both basic and higher education in Gaza, since Israel’s attack in October 2023;
- The unjustified but widespread clampdown across the world on legitimate public criticism of Israeli policies in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) and on its conduct of the war in Gaza and the false conflation of such legitimate criticism with anti-Semitism;
- That the devastation of an education system may contribute to the destruction of a group’s culture, religion, and identity and therefore comprise a form of cultural genocide; and
- That criticism of the extent of destruction of civilian infrastructure and the killing of teachers and university staff in Gaza is not an act of anti-Semitism.
As a collection of individual members of the Stellenbosch University Senate, we believe that:
- It is unacceptable to suppress legitimate criticism of parties’ behaviour in the Gaza War, particularly when the ICJ has found plausible evidence of a genocide taking place in Gaza;
- The manipulation of the definition of anti-Semitism to include any criticism of Israel or Zionism is both intellectually without foundation and a violation of academic freedom;
- The academic freedom to voice opinions in scholarly and public debates on Gaza must be defended as a matter of principle;
- Colleagues who have suffered discrimination and harassment as a result of speaking out against the invasion deserve our support and protection; and
- The evidence suggesting that the destruction of Gaza’s education systems was a deliberate plan of the Israeli military must be examined by the ICJ in its determination of genocidal intent.
As members of the Stellenbosch University Senate, we:
- Call for an immediate ceasefire and the cessation of attacks on civilians, the passage of humanitarian aid and the return of all captives;
- Condemn the destruction of the education sector in Gaza and the massive scale of killing of teachers and university staff in the current war;
- Urge the international community to ensure that the provision of humanitarian aid includes the restoration of the education sector in Gaza;
- Express our concern and opposition to any attempts to curtail academic freedom by labelling criticism of Israel or Zionist policies as anti-Semitism;
- Express our support for academic colleagues in Gaza who are surviving under appalling conditions and our intention to assist in the rebuilding of the academic sector after the war;
- Express our solidarity with academic colleagues victimised for their willingness to speak out against the educide in Gaza; and
- Urge our colleagues at Stellenbosch University and all other institutions of higher learning not to knowingly enter into relations, or continue relations with, any research group and/or network that includes current members of the Israel Defense Forces, and/or any member of the broader Israeli military establishment.
Signed by members of the Stellenbosch University Senate in our individual capacity:
Professor Ashraf Kagee, Department of Psychology
Professor Desmond Painter, Department of Psychology
Professor Pieter Fourie, Department of Political Science
Professor Sally Ann Murray, Department of English
Professor Juliana Claassens, Faculty of Theology
Professor Jeremy Punt, Department of Old & New Testament
Professor Geo Quinot, Department of Public Law
Professor Reggie Nel, Faculty of Theology
Professor Mawande Dlali, Department of African Languages
Dr Leslie van Rooi, Senior Director; Social Impact and Transformation
Professor Ronelle Carolissen, Department of Psychology
Professor Lize van Robbroeck, Department of Visual Arts
Professor Anita Cloete, Department of Practical Theology and Missiology
Professor Mehita Iqani, Department of Journalism
Professor Aslam Fataar, Department of Education Policy Studies
Professor Nuraan Davids, Department of Education Policy Studies
Professor Amanda Gouws, Department of Political Science
Professor Herman Wasserman, Department of Journalism
Professor Faadiel Essop, Division of Medical Physiology
Professor Mark Tomlinson, Institute for Life Course Health Research
Professor Leslie Swartz, Department of Psychology
Dr Therese Fish, Vice Dean of Clinical Services and Social Impact, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
Professor Ian Couper, Ukwanda Centre for Rural Health, Department of Global Health
Professor Steven Robins, Department of Sociology and Social Anthropology
Professor Robert Vosloo, Department of Systematic Theology & Ecclesiology
Professor Tina Steiner, Department of English
Professor Susan van Schalkwyk, Centre for Health Professions Education
Professor Louis Jonker, Department of Old and New Testament
Professor Soraya Bardien, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Jonathan Carr, Department of Medicine
Professor Mias de Klerk, Stellenbosch Business School
Professor Razeen Davids, Division of Nephrology
Mr Rubeshan Nayager, Unit Manager: BMRI Biorepository, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
Professor Sadulla Karjiker, Department of Mercantile Law, Faculty of Law
Professor Marlo Möller, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Craig Kinnear, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Karen Esler, Dept. Conservation Ecology & Entomology
Dr Mareli Pretorius, Department of Drama
Professor Mark Swilling, Centre for Sustainability Transitions
Professor Sandra Liebenberg, Chair in Human Rights Law, Department of Public Law
Professor Johann Mouton, CREST
Professor Lesley Le Grange, Department of Curriculum Studies
Professor Tania Ajam, School of Public Leadership
Ms Ellen Tise, Senior Director: Library and Information Services
Ms Miriam Hoosain, Chief Director, Human Resources
Professor Zwelinzima Ndevu, School of Public Leadership
Professor Savel R Daniels, Department of Botany and Zoology
Professor Catharine Esterhuysen, Department of Chemistry and Polymer Science
Professor Johann Rohwer, Department of Biochemistry
Ilhaam Groenewald, Chief Director, Maties Sport
Reagan Johnson, SRC Executive
Amory Smith, AAC Representative
Professor Samantha Sampson, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Michael Cherry, Department of Botany and Zoology
Professor Wikus van Niekerk, Dean of Engineering (on sabbatical)
Professor Lou Marie Kruger, Department of Psychology
Professor Heather Brookes, Department of General Linguistics
Professor Lambert Engelbrecht, Department of Social Work
Professor Clive Gray, Division of Immunology, Biomedical Research Institute
Professor Nadine Bowers Du Toit, Faculty of Theology
Professor Donita Africander, Department of Biochemistry
Professor Bruce Anderson, Department of Botany and Zoology
Professor Christine Lochner, Department of Psychiatry
Professor Soraya Seedat, Department of Psychiatry
Professor Stefan Gebhardt, Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology
Professor Louise du Toit, Philosophy Department
Professor Grant Theron, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Henk Botha, Department of Public Law
Professor Bernard Wessels, Department of Private Law
Professor Lana van Niekerk, Division of Occupational Therapy
Professor Sarah Skeen, Institute for Life Course Health Research, Department of Global Health
Professor Janis van der Westhuizen, Department of Political Science
Professor Xikombiso Mbhenyane, Division of Human Nutrition
Professor Sophie von der Heyden, Department of Botany and Zoology
Professor Peter Mallon, Department of Chemistry and Polymer Science
Professor Paramespri Naidoo, Department of Chemical Engineering
Professor Vasti Roodt, Department of Philosophy
Professor Novel Chegou, Department of Biomedical Sciences
Professor Corne Schutte, Vice-Dean: Research and Industry Liaison, Engineering
Professor Marianne Strydom, Department of Social Work
Professor Anna-Maria Botha, Genetics
Professor Lynette van Zijl, Computer Science
Professor Léanne Dreyer, Department of Botany and Zoology
Professor Estelle Swart, Department of Educational Psychology
Professor Liezel Frick, Centre for Higher and Adult Education
Professor Bob Mash, Department of Family and Emergency Medicine
Professor Juanita Pienaar, Department of Private Law
Professor Thuli Madonsela, Centre for Social Justice
Professor Selwyn Mapolie, Department of Chemistry
Professor Regan Solomons, Department of Paediatrics and Child Health
Professor Gunnar Sigge, Department of Food Science
Professor Anna-Mart Engelbrecht, Department of Physiological Sciences
Dr Susan Hall, Department of Philosophy
Professor Kathryn Chu, Centre for Global Surgery
Professor Kopano Ratele, Department of Psychology
Professor Emanuel Bylund, Department of General Linguistics
Professor Andries Visagie, Department of Afrikaans and Dutch
Professor Pregala Solosh Pillay, School of Public Leadership
Bantubonke Louw, Senior Manager: Centre for Academic Administration, Bellville Park Campus
Professor Henry Mbaya, Faculty of Theology, Stellenboch
Professor Maritha Kotze, Division of Chemical Pathology
Professor Andrew Whitelaw, Division of Medical Microbiology
Professor Bernard Dubbeld, Department of Sociology and Social Anthropology. DM
This is an improvement on the expectations from higher places of learning, education should not be reserved for students but for the whole society in the face of disinformation and propaganda.
A lot of people see an incident and based on available propaganda they raise an outrage based on labels not the overall actions that lead to an incident, time, location and motivation.
Muslims, Palestinians and Jews co -exist in Philistia,Telaviv-Yafo and Gaza.
After world war 1 at the end of the Ottoman empire the place was adopted(colonized) by great Britain.
Israel Jews constituted roughly half of the population west of the Jordan river whilst Palestinian arabs,Muslims,christian and Druze accounted for the rest.
The state of Israel was formed in 1948, soon after all the other groups were violently attacked and ejected to open way for Israel settlements.
The area attacked by Hamas was the settlements build after 11 Palestinian settlements were bombed and burnt and the people forced into Gaza strip which was turned to a refugee camp.
Having a festival in such a violent acquired area could have triggered emotional provocation in the nearby man made open prison GAZA.
Hamas as a declared military movement took the action unpopular in the morden world but familiar in that part, based on similar complains in the UN by Palestinians of Israel committing terror,murder and rape dated back to the 1940’s.
The varsity is correct to call a non sided end to the conflict.
In fact Jews in 1914 constituted some 15% according to Wikipedia and even by 1947 were only about a third.
Name a single country on earth that wasn’t conquered or colonized in its history. If its not Jews, it not news …
Having said that Peter it begs the question whether Israel is really the victim it portrays itself to be? And on your information it confirms that Israel imported a lot of Jews to build these settlements and violently eject the groups who originally settled there who amounted to 85% of the population.
Well written, with pertinent points outlined succinctly.
Let’s hope for an end to this round of suffering soon.
Let’s hope for an end to labelling critics of a government’s policies and actions as racism.
Let’s, most importantly, hope for an end to the occupation and oppression, and therefore have some optimism for an end to the tit for tat that will otherwise inevitably continue.
It will never come from the USA but disgust at the IDF’s excesses are at an all time high.
The European Union needs to review the conduct of the IDF and decide if terrorist offences have been committed by the IDF.
This is not about taking sides, this is about impartiality.
This would be an opportunity for the European Union to show that “colonial mindsets” don’t determine guilt when it comes to terror offences.
Well, after an accurate description of the destruction and aspects of genocide, the call requires very little that’s new or not already legally mandated. The UN Security Council has already called for a ceasefire. The ICJ has already called for humanitarian aid access. Etc.
So what’s new? Urge colleagues not to work with members of the Israeli military. Because it’s the military which enacts the genocide and this has nothing to do with with rest of the country.
So this is how the world works. When you have skin in the game, it’s difficult to do the right thing. When your funding might be affected, it’s difficult to do the right thing. Israel, even if it’s not committing genocide, clearly is a problematic state. What will it take, if anything, for universities to cut ties?
Thanks for the condescending lesson on how the world works. So enlightening. In calling for SA universities to cut ties, perhaps also enlighten us all as to their contributions these great bastions of learning have added to the fields of chemistry, economics, literature? If I’m not mistaken, since 1966, thirteen Israelis in these fields have been awarded the Nobel Prize (more per capita than Germany, the United States and France). Israel has more laureates, in real numbers, than India, China and Spain. So, in terms of “how the world works”, exactly what difference would this make? I can’t wait to hear.
PS – “Literature” does not include the Bible, and we all know where that was written too…
My point is on what the response should be given that there is plenty of evidence that Israel is committing genocide. As is your wont, you ignore my points. Of what relevance is the fact that Israel has produced Nobel laureates to this discussion?
When Germany committed went about exterminating Jews, Roma and Herero I suppose its defenders went around pointing out its great accomplishments and its great people. Just like Israel apologists occasionally do.
Unfortunately, I can’t respond to your original post so I’m doing it here.
Clearly you’re using your own made up definitions for the buzzwords – genocide and Apartheid. But these are legal terms and, while the lay interpretation might align with your own feelings on the matter, you’re wrong. I hate to condescend but maybe read the conventions.
Another point (feel free to ignore as you do most points that don’t align with Israel apologetics) is that while states have the right to defend themselves, it is not without limits. Starving a population is an example since it indiscriminately targets a civilian population. This is a war crime and, given Israel’s other actions and statements consistent with genocide. Not my view – the view of the special rapporteur on the OPT.
My tinkering to the Academics rather stick to your knitting and “Stand UP and against to the Communistic rule ” in your own back yard. We have not seen your Senate stand against Putin? .. Strange !!!
Israel has not extended an olive branch to you to solve this WAR?
Israel is at war with Terrorists… No Negotiations…
Hypothetically, I’m going to start a new country. For ‘my people’ only. The borders are going to be exactly where the borders of your home are.
I’m then going to kick you and whoever else is in your home, I mean, my new country, out to live in a field.
I’m then going to then put a huge wall around the area in the field where you now have to live.
I’m then going to ration your water, food, take away any weapons, restrict everything that comes in, inspecting and making my own rules about what’s allowed.
After a few years you become a terrorist because you have no other options and nobody outside is hearing your complaints.
Then I tell anyone who happens to walk close and hears your complaints “My country is at war with Terrorists… No Negotiations…”
Then when people complain about my new country’s policies and actions I’m going to tell the world that “He is racist! He just hates my people!”
Fair?
14000 dead children in Gaza, and two thirds of homes destroyed, along with universities, etc etc in 6 months.
600 children killed in Ukraine in four times as long.
Russia wants to take a fairly well functioning country, with it’s infrastructure.
Israel wants Palestine, it’s infrastructure, it’s history, culture and all it’s people destroyed.
There is a big difference, regardless of the politics.
Luke for someone who deals in hypotheticals – try this: If my hypothetical intention is to commit genocide (new glib buzzword, along with “occupation”, “apartheid” ,etc), and I have a huge military machine (including nukes), absolutely no moral compunction – why bother taking out “only” 30/40 000 out of 2 million of my enemy? Why not flatten the whole lot (that’s only 1,5% if my maths is right)? “Genocide”, as we have been brought up to understand in conventionally (not hypothetically) is more like 6 million out of 12 million (or 50% of a people), like what the Nazis did to the Jews. Also Luke, another hypothetical – what would the acceptable as “civilian losses” in urban warfare? Janes warfare says “up to 90% in modern civilian warfare”.
Because they wouldn’t get very far without immediate condemnation from their allies, and the rest of the world, because it’s so blatant, and they won’t be able to propaganda their way out of it perhaps?
I don’t know, but it’s definitely happening.
You defending killing civilians is not right. No matter what sources of statistics you use. This is 2024, and Israel has the highest order of military technology and intelligence available to it. If they genuinely only wanted to disable Hamas and impose a less extreme government in Gaza, do you really think the only way to do it is to flatten everything, and kill 14000 children?
Not a single word in defence of killing civilians from me. not a single Jew, worldwide, has ever celebrated the death of a Palestinian child. Hamas is being engaged in an urban conflict, for which it has prepared for years by using money donated for aid to build a subterranean tunnel network. It uses this to hide itself, instead of its population – underneath which it hides like cowards and whose populace it gladly sacrifices, particularly women and children. It then publishes its own casualty figures (which never include its own combatants), as the death of civilians, highlighting the women and children, knowing full well that useful idiots like yourself will not be able to properly analyze them. Ergo, given your innate inclination towards Israel (and the you know whos), the rest is easy…
part 1
Instead of just dismissing the very serious charge genocide as mere misappropriation and use of buzzwords a good question would be: on what basis are these claims being made?
Anyway, since you pose common questions thrown out in defense of Israel, allow me to respond.
(1) On why not just flatten Gaza. Israel has to deal with realpolitik. That is, in achieving its objectives it has to be pragmatic and consider the political context. Already it is facing considerable criticisms for its response in Gaza. American and British taxpayers are questioning support of Israel’s actions and their governments are being sued and risk being complicit in genocide as I previously explained to you. Secondly, if Israel used nuclear weapons, its stated reason for the war would be revealed as a pretext.
part 2
(2) The killing of >30k people through violent deaths is just the tip of the iceberg and there are different ways to commit genocide. Direct killing is one way. But there are indirect methods too such as starving, dehydrating, forcibly displacing the protected group, destroying objects indispensable for their survival, reducing essential medical services to below the minimum requirement, depriving of housing, clothes, education, employment and hygiene. This is why the genocide convention specifically makes mention of “deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”. Intent is also a key requirement and there have been plenty of statements in this regard. Read the article above to see the ways in which Israel is meting these requirements.
(3) Genocide is not based on numbers. But even it were set at say 50%, you’d be left with the rather difficult position of saying 5,9m out of 12m killed would not constitute genocide. Secondly, would we have to wait to get 6m to act? What if 1m were systematically killed?
(4) The acceptable losses in urban warfare you reference I think are for military as opposed to civilian. Again, there is no clear number. Laws of warfare state that each military target should be weighted against likely civilian deaths. The problem is that Israel appears not to be doing this and is indiscriminately killing. Hence the charge of genocide.
A long thesis. Try and redefine, or misappropriate “genocide” or “holocaust” (or any other glib buzzword, which I will keep on describing them as, unapologetically in this context) however hard you might – war involves (1)politics, (2)violent deaths, (3)casualty numbers and (4)collateral losses. Israel is a sovereign state, with its own
legally constituted (and very powerful, thankfully) sovereign army, with a sovereign right to defend itself and/or engage in war – whether you (or those that agree with you) do/don’t support their objectives.
Everything starts with a process and ends with a process, check the number killed by Israel since the 1940’s, they systematically, genocidically wiping out wiping out the Palestinians.
I am shocked they have your blessings.
Simple Wikipedia search Kenneth:
“Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) said in a report ahead of the 71st anniversary of the 1948 war that the number of Palestinians has increased by nine times since 1948”.
Even you must know that Jews are good at accounting, so how did we mess up these numbers so badly if we were trying to “systematically, genocidically” wipe them out?
A few months back I viewed a sickening video. The body of a young German woman on the back of a bakkie with her executioners around her. The bakkie was driving through a crowd. The shouts of “Allah Akbar” clear through the audio. Hands down, one of the most messed up things I’ve ever seen.
The European Union has defined Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Obviously certain criteria have to be met for an organisation to be defined as such. One wonders why the actions of the IDF don’t qualify.
Do colonial mindsets affect who gets labelled as a terror group and who does not?
It’s all very well writing to the DM if one feels strongly, but what does it achieve? Maybe the DM has to be careful about rocking boats.
We need to be writing to politicians here and overseas, especially those politicians in European Union countries who have yet to recognise Palestine.
Anger at IDF excesses are at an all time high, this is the time to take advantage of cynical politicians who dance to popular sentiment.
The continual denial of Palestinian sovereignty is a recipe for continued violence. The USA can’t be trusted to do right. Netanyahu can’t be trusted to do right. We must write.
You raise a really good point on how to bring about change. Writing in to the DM, probably hasn’t changed anyone’s mind.
So at the end of the day it’s got to be about boycotts and sanctions. No-one else is going to do it. The learned professors who worry about academic freedom are not that free after all as even they have to worry about funding for their research group.
So I’m doing what I can. Cancelling netflix. Not buying HP. Cancelling my DM subscription because of their Zionist staff member. When companies feel it, that’s when change will come.
Good for you cancelling all those pesky Zionist-controlled services. I’d heard about the Banks, the Media and Hollywood, but this is the first time I’ve heard that we also own Netflix and HP??? I must enquire where my dividends are being misdirected to …
The actions are about boycotting and calling out Israeli and international companies that are complicit in violations of Palestinian rights (systematic killing of civilians, detention without trial, starvation as a weapon of war, denying the right to self-determination and so on and so forth – you know, those international human rights law buzzwords).
And yes, that includes HP because it produces systems to control Palestinian movement. Caterpillar because it produces armoured bulldozers for razing Palestinian homes. Anyway, my intention wasn’t to provide an exhaustive list.
Anyway, it starts small, but it has to start somewhere. So thanks.
I forgot to add, recommending Susan Abulhawa’s Mornings in Jenin for book clubs. She’s well worth a read.
It’s probably inconvenient to boycott the Intel chip that is driving your cellphone and laptop (hint- look up where that technology was developed and originated). I can go on all day, but I must get back to running the world…
Yes the atrocities by Hamas and the IDF should be condemned. However, I want to ask one (a few) question as an old Matie. Why are you not condemning the atrocities committed by the Russians against the Ukranians with the same enthusiasm? Are there degrees of atrocity before it is condemned? Even though the invasion of the Ukraine has been broadcast in every gory detail including blatant executions. Why has there been no outcry by the US? The Russians have shown NO respect for human life. Is the US afraid to condemn Russia? Are there consequences from you partners in government? Will funding be stopped if you condemn the actions of Russia, a known associate of the South African government. What about atrocities by China against the Uyghurs. What about atrocities by many of the so-called global South? Mass executions in Iran? The government’s friends.
Until you take an unequivocal stance against all proponents of atrocities by naming them and shaming them with an appropriate media document please make sure that you know that you do not speak for all Maties. Maybe I didn’t get the memo but I find it insulting that you as senate members can draft such a document without asking if everybody is comfortable with it in the first place. It should be a document by academics and staff of the US. It should not be linked to the senate of the US. Is this sanctioned by the rector? It could be construed that all Maties buy in to your political correctness.
Please read my previous hypothetical situation. Your home was included. When people raise the alarm when they hear you complaining, I will tell them “Hey! Go complain about something else! There are lots of things to complain about!”
Fair?
In a strange way you make some sense. My point is that it is the flavour of the month to raise hell against Israel. You need to be seen to stand with the poor afflicted terrorized Palestinians because UCT did it and I’m sure a couple of institutions of higher learning in SA are doing it and the SA government does it so you better make sure you also play your part in condemning this atrocity. Yes I’m very familiar with the history of palestine and the jews and the houses and the borders etc. Nobody stops anyone from protesting and screaming blue murder (literally) when it comes to Israel as you correctly points out. However, this reminds me a bit of the debate between Jordan Petersons and Michael Dyson. When is it politically correct and when is it progress? As far as I can see there is no progress, Israel will do as it wishes and the Palestinians will do as they please. Even if the ICJ condemns Israel for plausible genocide so what? What can anyone do? At least, if you can’t do anything but highlight the obvious canine genitalia in one corner of the world then also do it consistently for other parts of the world. So be consistent. Be mindful that you talk only for yourself. Try and keep institutions that mean something different for other people (actual higher learning) out of the discussion/debate. Because the members of the US senate have published their condemnation publicly it reflects on other people who have attended the US (my home).
I appreciate your mature and open-minded approach to this.
However, does this statement signed by a number of Professors at any point say that it reflects the view of all past and present students?
It seems that is your point, that you don’t want the university and country that you have an emotional connection with, to be associated with a few people’s opinions who are connected with it.
Sure, so if they said what you want them to say in an included disclaimer, what difference will it make to anything?
Also, I think you might be confusing the senate of the university with the senate of the US.
No US = University of Stellenbosch. Thought that was somewhat clear.
What you call “political correctness”, and not taking the same stance against Russia with regard to Ukraine, may not be what you think. Some situations are more urgent and dire than others. For example, in 6 months, the IDF have killed about 14000 children in Gaza. In two years, four times as long Russia has killed about 1300 children. Does this make it more clear?
The life of any child is precious my friend. Clear as mud.
Absolutely. So I offered a possible explanation as to the urgency of the situation that may have motivated the university’s letter, after you criticised it because… they weren’t also criticising other conflicts. I never implied that any life worth less than any other. I’m not in the university’s senate.
So, why did you bring Russia up, and how at all, is it relevant to this letter’s points? Are all our complaints and criticisms invalid unless we also decry every other possible similar thing too?
Yes it is invalid when it is done to appease the gods of political correctness. It is invalid when it is analyzed in isolation to other areas of conflict. It is invalid when it tries to force a popular agenda through. It is invalid when the opinion is not shared by everyone. It is invalid when no practical solution is forthcoming.
My apologies, about 600 children killed in Ukraine in two year. That’s 23 times the number of dead children, in four times as long.
So is this the barometer that you use to decide which is worse? The number of children killed? Why don’t you look at all the people killed in both places. So, I see that there are ways to decide on the level of atrocity. Some atrocities are just more atrocious than others right? Very unique quantitative mind. I’m sure it resonates with the SA government mindset s well. Thank you for clearing it up for me. Glad to know my assessment of you was correct.
Don’t make it personal please. I am horrified by all war, and in no way support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine any more than I support any violence in any form whatsoever. I’m offering a possible explanation as to why this letter might have been drafted but no (without checking any evidence, maybe it was) letter was drafted by the University about the Ukraine conflict.
Regardless, the defence/bias towards one side by implying that somehow showing disgust for one conflict and not another lessens the point of the letter, is hardly relevant at all. Glad to know my assessment of you was correct. Are you going to call me an antisemite now?
No need to gaslight anyone Luke. Dogs bark, ducks quack.
I’m going to call you nothing. All I will say is that this one-sided action by the US senate members diminishes their cause an miniturize it. It becomes just another me-too attempt at grabbing brownee points. A lot of indignation but little productive recoil.
Yes some atrocities are worse than others. Mass slaughter vs milder slaughter. The civilian death toll is much higher in a much shorter period in regards to Gaza vs Ukraine. Six million Jews murdered in WW11 would be a bigger atrocity than say 6000 Protestants killed in Northern Ireland. If the death toll of over 13,000 children in a much shorter period, vs 600 children in two years of war in Ukraine, is irrelevant to you then your comment about “every child’s life is precious” rings somewhat hollow. I also don’t know why you are so butt-hurt about the international community, including Univ of Stellenbosch, taking a stand about the Gaza carnage. There has been plenty of international condemnation and outrage about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine even while that condemnation was hypocritical in not addressing massive human rights abuses in the OPT. And that condemnation was necessary even though there was hypocrisy involved. An unprecedented number of aid workers, journalists and medical staff have been deliberate targeted and killed in Gaza compared to many other conflicts. There is also deliberate starvation, while the assymetry of the conflict and the fact that civilians are trapped and have nowhere to flee makes it a very urgent situation.
I hope DM publishes this. Let’s make it about the US senate members and not to offend Luke or somebody. I put it to you that to the person being slaughtered numbers don’t count and it should not count for you either. About 10600 civillians have been killed in the Ukraine. About 44700 Ukrainian soldiers. I won’t even mention the number of russian soldiers. You talk about the asymmetric nature of the assault by Israel on the Palestinians. I’d like to point out the asymmetric response of the senate members to the atrocities committed on the 7th of October. One sentence? Really? You point out in quantitative terms the “plenty” of outrage against Russia but somehow it is hypocritical because it did not recognize human rights abuses in the OPT. I put it to you that you and the senate members are asymmetrically biased in favour of Hamas. The replies to this post is not just a spat between armchair Don Quichots, it points to the deep asymmteric deivide in this country, culturally and otherwise. As long as you understand clearly that myself and people that are likeminded will NOT bend to your world views. We will fight you in any forum. The list of things you hold against Israel is probably true but you conveniently forget what Khaled Mashaal said: “The state will come from resistance, not negotiation. Liberation first, then statehood. Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north”.
Deon Your logic is laughable. Certainly if a murder involves one person or 1 billion, the victim’s experience of being murdered is equal. That, however, doesn’t change the fact that the murder of one billion people is by far a bigger crime than the murder of one and courts would rightly consider the bigger crime more serious. Yes we all know that far fewer civilians have been killed in the Ukraine in a much longer period of time than in Gaza in a far shorter time so I’m not sure why you are even stating the obvious. The hypocrisy involves the UK and the US, while rightly supporting sanctions against Myanmar in its slaughter of the Rohinga and against Russia for its invasion of the Ukraine, continue to not only arm Israel’s slaughter of Gazans but support it economically and politically too. As far as I know October 7 is over. I’m talking about October 8 and onwards. We are now on April 12 and the daily slaughter of Gazans continues. The daily average killing of Palestinians had been several hundred each day. Could that be why the Stellenbosh Univ. has released their statement? Your statements about supporting Hamas are as silly as the accusations of anti-Semitism. And nobody is forcing you to support any world view, people are just challenging you being illogical. Seriously stop the keyboard commando antics and get out of your military fatigues. Netanyahu’s Likud party and their charter outlines preventing a Palestinian state at all costs and have supported Hamas financially.
Your logic is laughable. Certainly if a murder involves one person or 1 billion, the victim’s experience of being murdered is equal. That, however, doesn’t change the fact that the murder of one billion people is by far a bigger crime than the murder of one and courts would rightly consider the bigger crime more serious. Yes we all know that far fewer civilians have been killed in the Ukraine in a much longer period of time than in Gaza in a far shorter time so I’m not sure why you are even stating the obvious. The hypocrisy involves the UK and the US, while rightly supporting sanctions against Myanmar in its slaughter of the Rohinga and against Russia for its invasion of the Ukraine, continue to not only arm Israel’s slaughter of Gazans but support it economically and politically too. As far as I know October 7 is over. I’m talking about October 8 and onwards. We are now on April 12 and the daily slaughter of Gazans continues. The daily average killing of Palestinians had been several hundred each day. Could that be why the Stellenbosh Univ. has released their statement? Your statements about supporting Hamas are as silly as the accusations of anti-Semitism. And nobody is forcing you to support any world view, people are just challenging you being illogical. Seriously stop the keyboard commando antics and get out of your military fatigues. Netanyahu’s Likud party and their charter outlines preventing a Palestinian state at all costs and have supported Hamas financially.
I think before questioning the individual senate members’ call, maybe it would be good to get clarity on your view, since there are things I take as evidence based and factual which you may not and which are pertinent to the discussion.
I take that there is a strong case to be made that Israel is committing genocide, that it is an Apartheid state, that it is committing ethnic cleansing and that it oppresses the people of Palestine. In my view, IHL is problematic but, nevertheless, it’s the framework we need to work within.
If any of these things hold, then there is at least an argument to be made that universities take a stand. If you, however, do not feel that any of these hold, then the senate members’ views will be problematic. So let’s start there.
Next, it’s stating the obvious, but in a group there will always be different views and opinions. The question then becomes what to do about it. This is what democracies are about. Maybe there’s universal agreement that Israel is committing genocide, but not everyone agrees universities should get involved. There’s a debate to be had then.
But even the idea the senate should represent student views can be challenged. For example, at Stellies during apartheid, I think it’s safe to assume that a vote put to students on whether to admit black students would not have passed. The point to draw from this is that the majority can make decisions that are morally hard to support. What do we do then?
So now, let’s debate.
Nice approach JP, I just think people find it difficult to deal with the truth, which is fine as long they don’t divert,push propaganda and insult, we will be a better society.
It is well known that the rise of National Socialism in the mid 1930’s was supported by German academia (read the work done by Grüttner, Klemperer, Altbach, Brockhoff, Detzen, Hoffmann, Goldhagen, McClelland, MacGregor, Mantel, Nicklisch, Paletschek etc). It is a source of great shame for Germany today.
The light-sleeping antisemitism on Ivy League campuses in the USA currently was not only a disdainful matter in front in Congress, it continues to be disgusting.
This revolting message that goes out of its way to not so much as mention the innocent Israeli hostages innocently and brutally kidnapped on Oct 7, never mind calling for their unconditional release, nor does it even mention Hamas (not once!) – speaks about the signatories, not their stance. They can plead that they are not antisemites until the cows come home. If it walks like a duck …
Shame on them.
So if a woman slaps a man, she is automatically a sexist, and did it because she hates men. If anyone condemns the actions of Pol Pot, they are anti-Hindu (the national religion of Cambodia). If a brunette criticises the crimes of a blonde, it’s automatically because of hatred for all people with that hair colour.
To make the connection of racism, which is what antisemitism is, means that the Israeli government cannot ever be critisiced, no matter what it does, because it would mean the accuser is automatically racist towards Jewish people. So some governments, the ones of a country with a national religion, cannot ever be criticised? Please…
Mr Hypothetical – when a so-called independent third party deems, of all the issues in the world, it necessary to virtue signal by making its statement about any conflict whatsover (men/women, Pol-Pot/Hindu, blondes/everyone else, whatever other example you want to hypothesize over) – and not so much as MENTION the other party in statement (i.e. Hamas – which is purposely excluded), let alone the cause it is in dispute over (Israel / the IDF has explicitly stated its intention is destroy Hamas and return the hostages that were kidnapped on Oct 7) … then yes – the statement is blatant in stinking of what it is.
“Israel / the IDF has explicitly stated its intention is destroy Hamas and return the hostages that were kidnapped on Oct ” And there is no other way to achieve this? Only massive military force is the answer? Never negotiate?
You must misunderstand the middle east, and not be aware of Israel’s previous attempts at negotiations
Mordechai in a way you remind me of Julius Malema. If anyone points out where he, his beliefs, the actions of himself or his party etc are wrong his immediate response is to accuse people of racism.
Close to 50% of this statement is them defending their right to say what they want and not be called antisemites. Heck, if you are an antisemite (you included John) – just go ahead and say it. We see you anyhow. It’s better like this John.
Please do not pretend to know what I am. I am certainly not a racist or antisemite(the same thing really) I am anti a nation, any nation, that believes they are above and beyond reproach and have a right to treat others in any way they see fit. Even more I am anti those who resort to simplistic accusations of racism in order to protect their position whilst defending the indefensible.
The racist’s retort is always to say they are not one. Your views, and therefore your evidence, is all over your posts John. We see you.
50% of what the IDF apologists say are attacks on the person decrying the atrocities in Gaza, and the other 50% is calling the person a racist (antisemite). Very little about the actual topic at hand, mostly personal attacks.
No apology, ever. You misread. I could not be prouder to support.
As for not addressing the topics – go re-look at all of my responses. Or are you addressing someone else?
The reason why the October 7 victims cannot be mentioned in isolation is because this is an informed institution of learning, they cannot start the story on ocober7, they have well documented terror by Israel and the means applied.
Their summary of victims will be compounded and the root of the problem will be the main culprit.
Why do you think Israel targets institutions of learning and floods them with billions?
Name one, give evidence of Israel flooding institutions of learning (particularly in SA) instead of throwing out nonsensical blood libels.
At the Congressional Hearing into antisemitism earlier this year – the following evidence of “gifts” for American universities from foreign countries since 2012:
Qatar $3,281,809,233
China $1,733,894,910
Saudi Arabia $1,454,621,857
UAE $635,818,317
Kuwait $338,726,100
Russia $141,080,439
Turkey $81,509,310
Iraq $45,531,664
Lebanon $21,365,783
Pakistan $6,474,520
Venezuela $4,012,132
Syria $1,364,702
No doubt Iran is lurking in the shadows there too, but years of sanctions has them as master of money laundering and having others do their bidding.
Follow the money. Here is a well-financed Islamist systematic campaign of antisemitic hatred being well financed and fueled.
Oh the perpetual victim even when supporting the indiscriminate slaughter and human rights abuses. Offended by everything and ashamed of nothing. I bet some of those Israeli soldiers reveling in the killing and torture of Palestinians get bad headaches. Poor babies. Cry me a river….again.
Well thought out logical response M F. Thanks for answering the question too.
Where was the university of Stellenbosch’s voice during apartheid and during the Brown Shirt rampages in SA prior to and dring WWII?
The senate’s statement reeks of hypocrisy, cozying up to the ANC, and just plain vanilla antisemitism.
Nothing about it surprises me.
Most people don’t believe that Israel should be the exception when it comes to crimes of possible genocide, human rights abuses, the deliberate targeting of aid workers, journalists, and the disproportionate slaughter of civilians. Just because Israel has been given a free pass to carry out these abuses in the past by the hypocritical West doesn’t mean it will get away with it forever. No country is above international law. And hiding behind lame accusations of anti-Semitism when you no longer have a valid argument is an insult to those who have suffered from real racism and bigotry. And frankly it’s not taken seriously.
“Most people” believe many things. They aren’t necessary correct. The truth isn’t a popularity contest.
Democracy is obviously a problem for you. It seems that more and more of the world is getting “anti-Semitic” in regards to criticism of Israeli abuses, according to your logic. It couldn’t be that Israel’s human rights abuses deserve condemnation just as other countries that commit human rights abuses do. It must be that everybody that criticises this just hates Jews. Even Israel’s staunchest supporters such as the US and UK are also questioning Israel’s behaviour. I guess they too must be “anti-semitic”. It must be hard for you being a prophet of the truth in a world full of people who haven’t seen the light.
Democracy is obviously a problem for you. It seems that more and more of the world is getting “anti-Semitic” in regards to criticism of Israeli abuses, according to your logic. It couldn’t be that Israel’s human rights abuses deserve condemnation just as other countries that commit human rights abuses do. It must be that everybody that criticises this just hates Jews. Even Israel’s staunchest supporters such as the US and UK are also questioning Israel’s behaviour. I guess they too must be “anti-semitic”. It must be hard for you being a prophet of the truth in a world full of people who haven’t seen the light.
Reply
The truth never pretended to be popular or democratic – just plain true. The same way as good is not the same as evil.
I am shocked to the bone. There are thousands of our fellow human beings being killed, along with their homes, places of learning, hospitals, etc., in what is very blatantly and extremely clearly an attempt to eradicate them as a people. Yet the killing is defended by some. Those of us who raise our voices at the atrocities are personally insulted and called idiots. We are told that our words are invalid unless we also decry other atrocities. We are accused of being motivated by a hatred for the Jewish people (which is DEEPLY insulting!). I am shocked. I just can’t believe this is actually happening, and that these things are actually being said out loud, and genuinely believed. I am very, very sad today. How can so much killing actually be defended, in public, and when typing their defenses that involve nothing more than attacks and deeply offensive insults to those of us saying that the killing is wrong, how can they go back and read it, and not realise what they are saying? I’m extremely dismayed today.
I hear you man. I’ve felt that. For me it’s not just the attrocities and injustice. It’s those who defend the indefensible. Who mock those trying to argue for human rights. Human dignity. This is how genocide happens. This is how apartheid happens. This is how wars in distant parts of the world happen. With people going on with their lives looking the other way. Ministers ministering. Academics in their ivory towers. Politicians politicking. And so on.
I don’t know how to say this without sounding trite, but there are good people out there. And it helps to try and connect with them.
The lengthy debate already on this topic seems to miss the point somewhat.
Critics of the Israeli conduct of the war are not anti-Semitic but anti-Netanyahu’s government. Sadly that government, by describing it as anti- Semitism, makes targets of all Israeli Jews.
In the long term what Israel will bitterly regret is not so much the dead, but the survivors, who will every day for three generations see the mutilated, the stunted, the impoverished and the under-educated among their communities, and will welcome another Saladin.
What is so depressing is Netanyahu’s absolute refusal to understand or admit that ultimately the two sides must reach a political solution.
Douglas I am not sure, from your comment, if 1) you read this statement from the University or 2) if you have visited Israel recently (since Oct 7, if at all).
On 1) – the statement is all about condemning Israel and going about, at length, giving reasons why it has the right to do so and NOT be labelled antisemites. Who the heck do they think they are. Let them say what they like, make any damn statement they like, but don’t think you have the right to tell us, who support Israel, not to call you EXACTLY what we think, and know you to be!
On 2) whoever underestimates the fortitude of Jews under pressure has always, always, always been proven wrong. This time we aren’t being marched into gas chambers, or being imprisoned in ghettos, or with Crusader’s swords at our necks. Now we have our own country, and one of the most powerful armies in the world. Let them come …
Spoken like a true bigot with a massive chip on his shoulder
Spoken like a true bigot with a massive chip on his shoulder
In response:
1 You are here committing the very error I remarked on, by assuming, wrongly, that all critics are anti-Semitic. Do you accept that the Palestinians are also Semitic?
2 War without end: is that your solution? If so, does Israel have any moral right to exist; and is its continued existence, moral or otherwise, then guaranteed?
1) It is a trite conversation to debate if Palestinians are ‘semitic’. Are we going to debate semantics while there is war on the ground?
2) The State of Israel, in its current form (or any form), has as much right to exist (or for that matter not to exist) as any other sovereign state. States are formed by politics, annexation or war. The disproportionate argument always seems to be that the only ‘Sovereign State’ that constantly has its existence discussed and debated is the world’s only Jewish one (in a world where more than 20% of all countries have a state religion). I call that endemic antisemitism. Jews are expected to be a minority in the countries they live in, or better still, rather not exist at all.
After being personally attacked and angrily insulted by being accused of racism for saying that wrong is wrong, when it clearly is, what result do the defenders of the war hope to achieve with their method of defending the killing? That we will say “Oh yes, you’re right, we’ll shut up, let the killing continue”? If anything, they have motivated me more to sell everything and go and actually make a positive difference in the world by doing humanitarian work in Gaza more than ever. IDF sympathisers: you’re not doing yourselves or Israel’s government’s image any favours here, you’re just isolating yourselves, not convincing us that what is being done in the middle east is justified or right. How can you possibly, by personally insulting people who stand up for other humans lives and livelihoods when they are being destroyed?
And you have motivated me to add R1800 in the name of LukeS to the R1800 in the name of JohnP was that I was already donating before Shabbat to the United Israel Appeal. Thank you!
I am surprised you needed us to motivate you, with your closed minded support of the indefensible you should have been donating anyway.
You know how they say “not in my name”? Well, the extra will be in your name, as my motivation. Shabbat Shalom John
No doubt Bibi has een in two minds about how to proceed, having been waiting with bated breath to hear the perspective of the Stellenbosch University Senate on the question of how to manage the threat posed by an organisation whose avowed aim is the annihilation of his nation and all of its people. I am sure that he will swiftly adjust his strajectory accordingly.
Good riddance. I am actually humbled if leaders take such actions. What is happening in Gaza is horrible, it is so sad that atrocities are happening at this time when human rights and democracy rhetorics are like are thrown at random lying like waste when municipality workers are on strike. In fact the whole world has failed the people of Gaza, but again we have failed as humans. We are infact like animals watching with fear when one of them is being mauled. The world lacks truth and honesty, according to the teachings of the great books real cowsrds are those who lack LOVE, TRUTH and PEACE. The definition of “coward” we found in dictionaries is a corrupted one. So we failed fellow human beings and we failed the creator who created us and LOVE us all regardless of colour and creed. Something of this nature should never happen now and never again infront of us. We must force all our leaders Prime ministers and President to call a special sitting of the United Nations and stop this war.
Instead of worrying about the 27 000 people (including around 11,000 Hamas Terrorists) killed in Gaza , maybe we should be focussing on the 27,000 people that are murdered in South Africa ( 2023 statistics) every year . Thats right , our murder rate is 700% higher that the USA and our violent death rate is higher than the deaths caused by Americans during the Iraq war . We have a murder rate as high as a war zone , and its time to focus on our pwn problems
Somehow, in that detailed petition Stellenbosch’s academics forgot to mention the last 20 years of Hamas murdering Jews, and being perfectly clear that their anti-Zionism is specifically about exterminating Jews. The ‘senate’ also forgot to mention that there is no evidence of genocide in Gaza: it’s been proven the Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health (a) grossly inflated casualty numbers (2) and labeled every casualty, including armed Hamas soldiers as “civilians”: this is a breach of the Laws of War to label. The current casualty ratio in Gaza is 1:2 – ie 1 combatant per 2 civilians – while the global average is 1:9. It’s factually dishonest to call *that* a “genocide”. The senate also neglected to mention that Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and scores of civilians stole over 250 Israeli civilians and soldiers, then directly contacted their families to psychologically terrorize them, while refusing to release the hostages. The one-liner about Oct 7’s victims neglects to mention the thousands of missiles Palestinian militias have launched on civilians since Oct 7. The Stellenbosch lot also clearly didn’t read UN or EU findings about Hamas using civilians, hospitals, mosques, schools as weapons storage and launch zones. No country that faces Gaza’s homicidal government can let them evade justice simply bc they exploit their own civilians as ‘human shields’.
A collection of half truths carefully twisted and presented as facts to defend the indefensible.
Still looking for anything untrue there (how is something half true?), or non-factual, or in defence of anything other than not capitulating, lying down and meekly dying – which John and his fellow antisemites would have the world’s Jews do.
Resorting to unfounded accusations and slurs does not do your cause any good.